2014 Ram Promaster 2500 engine failure at 109,000 miles - Page 8 - Ram Promaster Forum
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post #71 of 85 Old 04-07-2015, 10:55 PM
Brian P
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Originally Posted by pblue View Post
My 2013 and 2012 toyota minivans weigh about 500 pounds less than my PM 2500 high roof (empty), but don't have the huge rpm increase when dropping from 6th to 5th gear at highway speed. My Promaster feels like an additional load is on the engine right before it jumps to 5th.

Why the difference?
Different transmission. Understand that the 62TE (transverse 6-speed automatic) that Chrysler has been using for a number of years (including in the PM) is a glorified 4-speed automatic with an additional underdrive unit. Theoretically there are 8 combinations (1 low, 1 high, 2 low, 2 high etc) but two of them work out identical (I believe 4th i.e. overdrive in the main box plus underdrive in the secondary box is identical to 3rd i.e. direct in the main box plus direct in the secondary box) and two of them are so close that the transmission does not shift through both of them, so there are only 6 useful speeds.

This is also why the shift from 2nd to 3rd sometimes feels awkward ... It is really the main box shifting from 1st to 2nd together with the underdrive box shifting from direct to underdrive. There is a lot going on in that particular shift. And 2nd ("1st direct") and 3rd ("2nd underdrive") gears are awkwardly close together ...

What all this means is that they are stuck with the same difference between direct and overdrive that the old 4-speed box had ... Transmissions "designed for the purpose" always have the higher gears spaced closer together. This one is stuck with an inconveniently large gap between its single overdrive gear and direct.

It also means that it has to unlock the torque converter for a moment during the shift to avoid having a large jolt ... that's why the revs go up momentarily just before the 5-6 shift.

I recently had a current Chrysler 200 as a rental, which has the ZF 9-speed. The upper ratios are all close together, which means it can do a better job of picking the right one, and the steps between them are small so it need not unlock the torque converter. I know Chrysler took some flak for how these were calibrated early on, but they must have been working on it; I thought it was fine.
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post #72 of 85 Old 04-08-2015, 07:55 AM
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The 9-speed will be used with 3.6 liter V6 on next minivan, so it seems to me that it's only a matter of time before it makes it into PM.

Because of the PM's larger diameter tires, larger frontal-area size, and much heavier GCWR, RAM needs to install much lower final drive ratio otherwise top gears will be practically useless. Such an upgrade, if implemented, may take a while. I just hope ZF and Fiat have been working on it for some time.
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post #73 of 85 Old 04-09-2015, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian P View Post
Different transmission. Understand that the 62TE (transverse 6-speed automatic) that Chrysler has been using for a number of years (including in the PM) is a glorified 4-speed automatic with an additional underdrive unit. Theoretically there are 8 combinations (1 low, 1 high, 2 low, 2 high etc) but two of them work out identical (I believe 4th i.e. overdrive in the main box plus underdrive in the secondary box is identical to 3rd i.e. direct in the main box plus direct in the secondary box) and two of them are so close that the transmission does not shift through both of them, so there are only 6 useful speeds.

This is also why the shift from 2nd to 3rd sometimes feels awkward ... It is really the main box shifting from 1st to 2nd together with the underdrive box shifting from direct to underdrive. There is a lot going on in that particular shift. And 2nd ("1st direct") and 3rd ("2nd underdrive") gears are awkwardly close together ...

What all this means is that they are stuck with the same difference between direct and overdrive that the old 4-speed box had ... Transmissions "designed for the purpose" always have the higher gears spaced closer together. This one is stuck with an inconveniently large gap between its single overdrive gear and direct.

It also means that it has to unlock the torque converter for a moment during the shift to avoid having a large jolt ... that's why the revs go up momentarily just before the 5-6 shift.

I recently had a current Chrysler 200 as a rental, which has the ZF 9-speed. The upper ratios are all close together, which means it can do a better job of picking the right one, and the steps between them are small so it need not unlock the torque converter. I know Chrysler took some flak for how these were calibrated early on, but they must have been working on it; I thought it was fine.
I have the ZF9 in my Promaster City. Very smooth. You do not notice any shifts except a nice downshift when passing.
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post #74 of 85 Old 04-09-2015, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by prohbob View Post
I have the ZF9 in my Promaster City. Very smooth. You do not notice any shifts except a nice downshift when passing.
Is there an indicator of which gear you're in? And if so, which gears are used most often during highway cruising?

I've read some reviews that 9th is rarely engaged unless going down hill or with tail wind. Not that that is a bad use of gearing -- I'm just curious if it's true.
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post #75 of 85 Old 04-09-2015, 09:33 PM
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I couldn't get the 200 to use 9th gear, but I didn't go over 80 mph trying.

Even without considering 9th, that transmission has 4 ratio choices covering where the 62TE has two.
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post #76 of 85 Old 04-10-2015, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian P View Post
I couldn't get the 200 to use 9th gear, but I didn't go over 80 mph trying.

Even without considering 9th, that transmission has 4 ratio choices covering where the 62TE has two.
With newer cars and vans that have smaller engines making highest power output at very high RPMs, it's unlikely that pushing to higher vehicle speeds will use a higher gear.

Above 80 MPH it's likely that power requirement is high enough to perhaps even force a downshift. If engine could rev to 6,000 RPM in 9th gear, the car or van would be going around 200 MPH, which of course is impossible. I'd guess top speed of around 120 MPH is reached in 5th, 6th or 7th gear depending on final axle ratio, tire size, aero drag, power level, etc. In no case would I expect the transmission to hold 9th (or even 8th) at really high speeds.

Overdrive gears used for fuel economy are usually too tall for high speeds without overloading the engine. Similar thing should happen to PM -- I'd guess it would downshift out of 6th as speed increases unless it's programmed to prevent it.
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post #77 of 85 Old 11-26-2015, 02:31 PM
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I signed up just for this.

My dad's promaster, which he uses for expediting, started having a sound coming from the engine at 164K miles. A mechanic told him it sounds like engine knock but needs to open it to find the exact cause. Also, found metal flakes in the recently replaced oil filter. I just ordered an engine off eBay.

He called his friend who drives a PM with 130k miles on it and asked if he heard any abnormalities from the engine. The guy says there was a sound and headed home. The next day the engine started knocking really bad and ended up getting stranded near LA. His van is at the dealer currently.

I don't think this is a coincidence.
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post #78 of 85 Old 02-24-2016, 06:59 PM
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Unhappy mine had really bad tick at 120000

120000 miles PM 3500 long and extra tall . oil and filter changed every 5000 miles , with amsoil . trans fluid done at 50k.

at 100k it developes a tick all the time and a cold start up howl was busy working and put on another 18k. figured i never got a check engine thinks ust still be ok. finally get a week off and take it in and have them pull valve covers.

one roller rocker on each head on the intake cams seized up and was wearing into the intake cams . also a leaky radiator and waterpump. $4200 later 2 new cams all the intake rockers and stays replaced and a new waterpump. i held off on the radiator because i was in several times for losing coolant, which i am pretty sure was the radiator seam . they were just now finding it after the warranty was up.

I kept all the parts and took a look at them when i go the van back and 90% of the roller rockers were starting to fail . the bearings were coming apart. the water pump i had replaced was leaking a little from the weep hole . was not bad at all , could have done more miles with it but i was ok with changing due to the milage . water pumps on most cars are suggested to be replaced after 100k miles.

I called PM customer care and told them my situation , and was told they could do nothing about the cams and rockers . but they did say they would help out on the radiator but did state how much till they talked to the dealer so i called the dealer and made a date for the radiator . next day was 25 degrees , started van , had same howling noise at start up happened . I went to the dealership and traded the van in .


The promaster too me is possible the biggest piece of s--- vehicle i have ever bought . I had a 2004 sprinter that i had for 6 years and ran it to 550k miles with regular maintenance and very few issues . I will say that the promaster rides nice and is comfortable , but from what i can see they are gonna have major issues with the engines . and from my experiance going to the dealerships to try and get service , they were always packed or they didnt have a lift that could lift my van , or it would be a week before they could take a look at it , i even once went in to the drive in bay and got out and stood in front of the service writer , he didnt look at me and ignored me for 10 mins without even saying ill be with as soon as possible . i finally got back in my van and left. just from that i should have seen the writing on the walls sooner and got away from it.

I only wish honda would build a van like this . I have a 99 and an 07 odyssey and when i take them to get the timing belts done every 100k i get a free loaner and i have never had to take any of them in for anything else other then recalls which they would call me and schedule a time to get them done .
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post #79 of 85 Old 02-24-2016, 09:54 PM
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Garage
Never trusted that Amsoil Seriously sorry about your experience and lets hope you got an engine that performed much poorer than most!
The Sprinter is not a fair caparison and since its the engine which really failed on your Van the Diesel 3.0 might have been a better combination for the extent of use you were going to put it to. I believe any modern gas engine should be up to much more than 120K miles, but they are not built to return the sort of service your sprinter had. I regularly run my gassers to 250K+ and pass them off as I don't want the end of life issues on my watch. So far no failures in about 10 vehicles bought with 150K and used 100K or more. I use the cheapest oil that meets the manufactures spec. Usually Walmart! It ain't about oil!

2015 136" HT Diesel Sandstone Metallic Born on 6/12/2015 Campervan build see: http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/...ad.php?t=37177
Have Leatherman, Will Travel
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post #80 of 85 Old 02-25-2016, 01:05 PM
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Doesn't Amsoil have a engine warranty thing too? Something like if you use Amsoil they guarantee you won't have an oil related failure?
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