2014 Ram Promaster 2500 engine failure at 109,000 miles - Page 9 - Ram Promaster Forum
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post #81 of 92 Old 03-24-2016, 02:09 PM
c p
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Wow, this is a scary thread (haven't checked into these forums in a while).

RDinNHandAZ, I'm a diesel owner. You obviously have enough experience for me to ask the following question, that would otherwise call for way too much speculation:

Based on the suggestion in your last post in this thread about dwest's and others' engine issues post 100k miles possibly being different than what diesel PM owners might expect, do you think that the engine parts that seem to be failing are a stronger or better built version in the diesels or [and this is going to reveal a bit of my own ignorance about all of the differences between gas and diesel engines] is it that some of those parts don't exist in the diesels, or both?
Or, is it that the differences in the low RPM torque of the diesels would possibly allow the same parts to last longer in the diesels -- e.g., rocker arm (roller) bearings in a gasser spinning at an average of 3,300 RPMs would last 120k miles, would be equivalent to 180k miles in a diesel spinning an average of 2,200 RPMs, or something like that?

So, is the difference stronger parts in a diesel or same parts, same number of operations for life expectancy for parts to fail, but more miles because of lower engine RPMs?

Kind of a nerdy way to ask it, just trying to get some expectations for my own PM which, by the way, I bought with an extended warranty for 7 yrs or (I think, but after reading this thread really need to check) 120,000 miles.

Finally, how hard would it be for gasser owners to get FCA to replace (or at least do an inspection of) the rocker arm bearings at or before 100k miles, based on the mounting history of issues (and a reference to the cases posted in these and any other PM forums)?

Purchased 7/21/2015: 3500, 159" HR Ext, High Roof, Diesel, Sandstone; rear windows, rear cam, park assist, U-connect 5", partition w/ sliding window, cargo flooring, ... [blah, blah, blah]
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post #82 of 92 Old 03-24-2016, 09:17 PM
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For your last question, pay them, otherwise they are not going to do it. Remember the 2016 gas drivetrain is 5 year 60K not 100K like the diesel.

This 3.0 diesel is a commercial/industrial engine used in the largest Ducato in Europe and used in 1 ton and larger trucks like the Mitsubishi Fuso and some others. It is not a car engine and is built to power those larger long term and often abused work vehicles. It is somewhat detuned for this van as well since the M40 transmission cannot handle the maximum torque it produces in those other applications. It is not the cleanest diesel without the add ons FCA did. It is an older design but well proven and tough as ****. It will not be failing. The M40 transmission has some history and most is good. As a manual it needs little attention and with the robot running it, I cannot believe we can hurt it. The actuators for the transmission might be the weakest link but I have not heard much about failures in Europe. The straight manual with a clutch in Europe has a reputation to hop and shudder backing up from an incline and our robot seems to know how to avoid that.

The Pentistar is a very good engine used on many/most of Chryslers lines and is well proven. It has had a few weeknesses but modification should have reduced failures to a "normal" level. Leakes in the V between the cylinders and premature camshaft wear come to mind. I would not hesitate to buy one, Chrysler must know its proclivities well by now. I know squat about the transmission on the gas van and am willing to take others opinions and facts that may not agree with me here.

I know I did not address c p's question directly as I don't know the answer. It may be the lower rpms but I doubt that is the reason. The diesel is built to last longer and withstand more than it is likely to receive. That costs more so it is a $5000 option. YMMV

2015 136" HT Diesel Sandstone Metallic happy with the owner conversion. See: http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/...ad.php?t=37177
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Last edited by RDinNHandAZ; 03-25-2016 at 11:29 AM.
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post #83 of 92 Old 03-25-2016, 12:04 AM
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The largest vehicle in Europe that use the disel engine (that is named F1C or S30) it is the Iveco Daily that use it in different power output up to 205 HP for the twin turbo version and 470 Nm of torque when used with automatic ZF 8HP gearbox.
There are several version of the truck with different capabilities, maximum gross vehicles weight for a chassis cab version is 7 (metric) ton (15432 lbs) and a gross combined weigth of 10.5 t (23148 lbs).

There is also a 136 HP CNG version of the engine as well as a maritime version (S30 of FPT Industrial, that is the manufacturer of the engine).

http://www.iveco.com/uk/collections/...b_Brochure.pdf
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post #84 of 92 Old 03-25-2016, 11:13 AM
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Just killed a whole cup of coffee reading through this thread. I want to thank everyone for detailing their experiences here!
I'm a semi retired upholsterer who just uses my '14 PM hi top for errands and some road trips. I average 7k miles a year. I'm usually the old guy in the right lane driving the speed limit. I changed my PM's oil with synthetic Pennzoil at 5k and use 5k as a set time for oil changes because it is so easy to remember. I'd rather be thorough than slacking on maintenance. I was a nuc plant mechanic in the Navy and tend to be anally thorough taking care of my vehicles.
So far mine runs like a top. Had the radiator done recently and it hasn't lost a drop since. dealer did a great job on that one. Brakes squeal a little around town, but I don't care since they work brilliantly. This thing can really stand on it's nose if it has to. This summer I'll put 300 watts of solar power on the roof to run a couple 100 amp/hr deep cycle batteries for a frig for camping. Hoping to enjoy this cool van for some years to come! Thanks for all the thoughtful postings!

There are so many synonyms for "Plenty". Do we really need them all?
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post #85 of 92 Old 05-05-2016, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EBscyclemover View Post
quote- " - you had bad luck and I'm trying to diminish that. But yours appears to be the only example of major engine failure on the PMs so far, so it kinda represents a worst case scenario."-
lets keep it all in perspective. Does anyone else have 109k plus on a PM gasser here on this forum? Cant really compare PBlue's case to guys that only have a fraction of the miles on their vans. Anyone else have over 100k on a PM and have mechanical issues???
Yes, I do. Right now my 2014/3500 has 114K +; It was twice repaired by the same dealer; and it again just started fail. Same knocking noise. both times were replaced the camshafts; first time one, the second time two of four. I feel the problem caused by some luck of lubrication, possibly when running fast. The cause was never found and eliminated. This means the engine would always fail again and again.
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post #86 of 92 Old 06-10-2017, 08:04 PM
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Mine went in the shop last Wednesday with a severe miss. At first I thought it was the transmission as it was bucking like it was driving over a cattle guard but the next morning I started it to drive to work and it had a slight miss at idle then a few miles later it was so bad I just turned torward the dealer and dropped it off. My job was 90 miles away and there was no way it would make it there. My 3500 EXT has 92,500 miles on it. I was preparing to do the 100k service on it but it didn't make it there...hopefully they get back to me soon.
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post #87 of 92 Old 06-10-2017, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by pblue View Post
Let me add that I have always been concerned about the constant downshiftsof the Promaster ddrive train. I've driven four different Promasters and they all downshift. The problem is that at 60 mph, the downshifting increases engine speed by about 1000 rpms, and tow haul mode doesn't make it better.

Driving the van through hill country, or just on a highway with several slopes for bridges will cause the drive train to downshift several times per hour. Do the math on an 8+ hour drive. I have never seen any engine do this in my 1.2 million miles of driving cargo vans and minivans.

Last winter, after driving through the midwest on an interstate highway with hills at night in below 25 degree weather, the engine was hot at the gas station, and the electronic fan was running
I find this super weird, too. I've never driven a petrol vehicle that applies engine braking automatically when going downhill. I was always told, "brake pads are WAY cheaper than a new transmission!" and taught not to downshift to slow speed going downhill.
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post #88 of 92 Old 06-11-2017, 02:39 AM
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I was always told, "brake pads are WAY cheaper than a new transmission!" and taught not to downshift to slow speed going downhill.
Really? Completely contrary to 'standard wisdom' that counsels to "downshift to low gear" when coming down out of the mountains.

Our concern isn't the cost of brake pads or transmissions, rather, it's the unhappy consequences of a catastrophic failure of the brakes caused by prolonged and extreme temperatures. This danger, we surmise, is real . . . as we were pulled over by the "brake police' while descending Pikes Peak a few years ago. The officer 'shot' our brakes with his infra-red gun and said, "Your brakes are too hot, pull over there for 20 minutes."

Thus, as we recently test-drove our new Promaster over one challenging pass after another, we were delighted to see that the Promaster does, indeed, downshift . . . and if it didn't, we went to the 'pseudo-manual mode' and did what was required to force the transmission into lower gears. Indeed there were a couple of instances where we had to rely on the brakes to slow us sufficiently in order that we could force the transmission into FIRST gear in order to control our downhill velocity (of course, if the brakes have failed, one can't rely on the brakes to slow sufficiently in order to urge the 'automatic' into a lower gear).

2016 159" HT (Standard Length) Gas
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post #89 of 92 Old 06-11-2017, 04:18 PM
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Our church van, a Ford, has had it's brakes catch fire twice coming down the mountains here in Colorado. These drivers are clueless about the amount of weight they are carrying and the amount of heat generated when constantly riding the brakes. Thankfully no one was hurt either time but the van took a beating. So I can can see FCA's logic in forcing the downshift to slow the van.
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post #90 of 92 Old 06-11-2017, 08:13 PM
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Yes- make the vehicle protect the dumbest driver it might ever have. That is exactly how I feel it is dealing with me when it downshifts on the slightest grade, not a mountain, mind you, but a slight grade. I am considered too dumb to coast along on this slight grade- well....... something is stupid but in this case it is not me. Thank goodness for the manual section on the automated manual diesel transmission, I can downshift when it is needed and properly use my brakes and coast when I want to.

2015 136" HT Diesel Sandstone Metallic happy with the owner conversion. See: http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/...ad.php?t=37177
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